WMH Season 3 Ep 1: Millennial Mental Health & The Psychology of Choosing to Live a DINK Lifestyle

This is a transcript of Watching Mental Health Season 3, Episode 1 which you can watch and listen to here:

Katie Waechter: Welcome to Watching Mental Health, where we break down the stories, stigmas and research in mental health. It's time to have an open conversation, so let's talk about it all. Hi everyone. What's up? This is TJ Bozarth and my name is Katie Rose Waechter. Now Katie Rose Flores is officially married woman, and this is our third season of watching mental health, and I'm so excited because today we have my very dear friend and really just brother for over 30 years, almost 30 years probably. We met in elementary school and I'm just so excited to have you here today. Thank you so much for joining me!

TJ Bozarth: No, thank you. I'm excited.

Katie: This is awesome. So I'm going to give a little background on you and then I'll ask you a little bit more in your own words who you are. So just so everyone knows, TJ Bozarth lives in Austin, Texas, but he grew up here in Las Vegas, Nevada with me, and he earned a film degree from UNLV as an advocate for non-traditional relationships. He is creating a radio theater musical about choosing to forego having children in modern America. This lifestyle can be viewed as selfish to some while liberating to others, but it is inherently a personal choice in a world where societal expectations can put a lot of pressure on anyone, TJ's musical hopes to give a voice to the psychological hardships of the often overlooked, childless minority. Join us today as we really dive into what that means, what the psychology behind choosing to forego having children means, and really as a millennial in our lifestyle, the mental health behind that because it's such a big deal in our world. So before we dive into all of those topics, tj, tell me a little bit more about yourself in your own words.

TJ: Sure, yeah, you hit all the major plot points there, so I'll have to be creative here. But yeah, I grew up in Vegas, actually not too far down the street from you, and I think I kind of fall into that millennial category and that we're kind of like a middle child of generational trauma. We didn't have the big war our parents did, and we're not completely devoid of physical intimacy the Generation Z is now. So I kind of have this weird, for instance, my dad was really well off and my mom was quite poor, and I was a child of divorce, so I have this really weird perspective. There was one day in the week I remember eating at a Michelin Star restaurant, and then the next day I remember splitting a bowl of Top Ramen with my mom. I didn't get a bowl of Top Ramen. We split a bowl. So I have this really weird, if there's anything I'm good at, it's kind of seeing the world around me and seeing the different sides of things. And growing up in Vegas, I'm sure you understand this too. It's like you see the glitz and the glamor, but then in the suburbs it's a very real emotional town run with real families and people that have jobs and dreams.

Katie: Yeah, that's true. And that's really interesting. You touched on a couple, I think key things that a lot of millennials deal with, so that separate lifestyle of families. A lot of us grew up with divorced parents. We didn't grow up in the fifties when everyone just made themselves be together. I think that we've seen in Las Vegas especially, we've seen you're saying that glitz and glamor versus the other side, which can be very real, very raw, and sometimes people don't want to look, and that's disheartening. It takes away from the humanity, I think that is in Las Vegas that we don't talk about. And so other topics that we really don't talk about, but a lot of people are doing is not having children. And actually people are worse. Some people are worried that our world population is going to suffer. We're going to go down because of this.

Other people are like, there's too many people in the world and we all, so it's hard to know what the right thing is, but what I do know is that millennials are choosing not to have children. And I think you and I both represent that. We have both in some ways made that decision. I think I decided a long time ago I wasn't going to have children, but I think that just lifestyles is kind of what happens and you build that. So tell me more about your thoughts on having a childless relationship. You've been married for a few years now, so tell me more about that.

TJ: Yeah, we got married in 2017 and we've had the discussion, but ultimately we kind of decided on just, it's maybe not something we're going to choose to do. And I don't mean that as in we're actively choosing not to. We're just not choosing to have kids. And if it happens, we will take that when it comes. But that's kind of how we, I don't want to say rationalize it, but in our head how we come to emotional center with it, there's so many things that people just don't have control of anymore. And then it's kind of funny too because my neighbors, they just had a kid and they didn't want to know if it was a boy or girl, and I was asking 'em like, oh, why not? And they said, because there's just so few surprises in life, we're going to find out eventually. And I thought that was a really nice positive way of looking about it. And I kind of feel like we're that same way in terms of we are not actively trying to have a kid, but if it happens, we will come to terms with it when it's time.

But yeah, it's kind of funny you talking about being a millennial as well, but it's also that I decided to have this musical because you always see in the news, it's such a major talking point in which they're like, millennials are killing the avocado industry, or millennials are killing online dating. They stick their hand in a bag and just pick out, we kill everything. We're killing it, we're killing it, we killing it. But that means something completely different to them.

I just got a thought it'd be funny. Like, oh, I started with the idea where I was thinking, I just want to write a musical. First of all, I started writing a musical in the middle of Covid just for my own mental health. I just wanted something to get my mind off lockdown, the overall negativity of covid and stuff. So I was like, oh, I'm just going to go back to writing. I used to write a lot. I'm like, I'm going to go back to writing. It's fun. So then I was thinking like, oh, I've always wanted to write a musical and me and you are big into poetry. I think we could swap poetry in middle school. I thought, well, what would be the funniest group of people that I could write a musical about? And I was like, oh, millennials are killing the beekeeping industry. The millennials are killing. So I had all these ideas, and then finally I just thought, well, I think it's most relevant to talk about the fact that we really truly are killing the baby industry.

Katie: And stats show that. I mean, we're not having kids across the world, not just in America. I mean, there are some countries that are having a lot of kids still, but for the most part in first world countries, we're choosing not to have kids. And I think that a lot of us have our own maybe personal reasons for it, and I know I do. It's not like I'm actively against having kids, but I really have never had that desire to have kids. And again, I have my own personal stuff, but I think in many ways, us millennials, I mean, I think we're exhausted. I think we're just trying to survive. I think that we grew up basically being told that the world was going to end from Y 2K on, and we're just like whatever about it. And maybe that's a passe kind of response, but maybe that's just where my head is at right now. But I don't know. I think it's interesting that so many millennials are choosing to live that DINK lifestyle, which is a double income no kids. For those who don't know what DINK stands for, what do you think on that?

TJ: I think the stats absolutely do show it. And you're totally right, because I was reading that the PEW research center shows that 47% of couples don't have children, which is up 10% total since five or six years ago.

So 10, six years, that's a huge jump. Yeah, it's a huge jump. And you're right. I mean, the thing is, it's such a personal choice because I'm glad you said that. People seem to think that people that don't choose not to have kids are angry and they hate kids. In fact, I had to retroactively change the first song. I sat down with my partners and we were talking about it and we're like, it kind of comes off a little angry. I was like, oh, I was just trying to be funny when I wrote it. Well, we got to be a little bit more upfront the fact that we don't hate kids. So we had to change the first line to basically say, Hey, we don't hate kids. We hate you telling us to have kids.

Katie: Right. I love that. So tell me more about Deep to the musical.

TJ: Yeah, so as you said, it's a double income no kids. And I came up with the idea that I wanted to do, first of all, it was a lot of budget reasons. I was a film major, as you've said, and I kind of stepped away from that, unfortunately, just for my own mental health. Again, I was not making any money, and I was, I was selling plasma, blood plasma just to feed myself because I was working for free for friends and hoping that one day they'd hit a big and throw me a bone. And of course, we're all starving artists still, so not really. So I kind of sold out and I joined a corporate job, but that's been able to help me actually, at least at my house, I was able to get married and able to travel back to Vegas whenever I want.

So I wrote the musical and for budget reasons, I wanted to make it radio theater, and I thought I was a genius. When I came up with this idea, I was like, oh, it's like a podcast and a musical that's never been done before. So I wrote this whole thing, and all the stage directions are just based on, you hear them loudly walking across the room, and then they fight, and then you hear them slam the door. I mean, it was very like, oh. I was thinking like, oh, I'm going to make the next Zoro, and everyone's going to sit around the radio and listen to their programs.

Katie: Or back in the day when everyone freaked out that aliens were taking over that radio show that everyone, everyone was hooked in. Let's bring it back to the radio. I think

TJ: It's cool. That might have been the biggest prank of all time because people thought it was real. They're like building bunkers as, yeah. So I wrote this radio theater, and it's a musical podcast, and there are some out there, that's for sure. And some of them are really good, actually. I was able to listen to them and see like, oh, this is how to do it. This is where I can fix it. But yeah, it's going to be all audio. It's going to be 12 episodes released biweekly, and each episode comes with two original songs. The whole season is about three think couples, and they all have their different reasons, not just as a couple why they don't want to have kids, but individually they each have their own reason why they don't want to have kids. And a lot of it is, again, mental health. A lot of it is finances. I mean, who the fuck can afford? Can I swear?

Katie: No. Yes, of course. Yeah,

TJ: Sorry. She did sign me up for this. So she knows, well, don't go crazy, but But who the hell can afford to have kids anyways, let's be completely honest. Right? It's crazy. And one of my favorite characters that I wrote into the musical is just like, you know what their reason is that it's none of your business.

No one needs to justify to anybody why they don't want to have kids. For story reasons, I gave all the other characters reasons they have to overcome this or they want to overcome this or they want to work. One of the characters, she has a lot of emotional trauma and she's afraid she doesn't necessarily don't want to have kids, but she's afraid to pass that on to a child, whether consciously or subconsciously. I mean, we inherit our parents' trauma even though they try so hard to pretend. You grow up and you see your parents and there are these superheroes, but then there's a hard lesson you learn when you're like, oh, they're just people.

Katie: That's right.

TJ: And they're struggling. And I see that now, even though a lot of times people don't have that relationship with their parents where they can talk about the fact that they have that thing in common.

Katie:

Yeah, no, that is a really hard lesson to learn, and I think we all learn that at one point when we have issues with the parents, there's always a time where you have to recognize that they're just people and we're all just people and people are flawed, and that's just how it is. But we do deal with a lot of that, and I think finance is a big thing. And I think that frankly, like you said, at the end of the day, it is no one else's reason. There is no reason for them to know it's none of their business. I remember, so I just got married and it's been three months or some change or something like that.

Awesome. So much Fun. I'm really good at it. And the question I've gotten the most is, oh, that's so great. So where are you going to have kids? It's always that immediately they know nothing about me. They know nothing about my husband. They know nothing about our age difference. They know nothing about nothing. And the fact is, it doesn't even matter if they knew that they shouldn't be asking a question that really can go so much deeper than, oh, we're thinking about it. We're not thinking about it. There are so many reasons that people don't have children. And what if I couldn't have kids? What if you just Exactly, that can of worms. Exactly what, unless I had a miscarriage and then now I have to relive that trauma in front of you while we're out in public and you're just bringing up kids. People don't realize how deep of a subject it can be. It's not just about choosing or not choosing.

TJ: And I, I'm so petty when it comes to that. I'm sorry. I'm really petty. And that's why I wrote a whole fricking musical about it, just to kind of show people's faces. Right after I had gotten married, I had this boss and she every day was asking me, when are you going to have kids? When are you going to have kids? When are you going to have kids? And it got to the point where, I don't know why she had four and happy for her, but she would give my coworkers time off. I don't mean time. They get to leave early, their kids get to come into work, they get to take extra long lunch breaks, all this because the kids, and obviously kids need more attention. But it really pissed me off because I was like, I've been here longer than these people, and I can't even take off to go to the dentist.

You know what I mean? Or what if I wanted to see a therapist? I can't even take that off, and you're giving it to them just because they need to go to their kids' recital or whatever. So I eventually left that department, but it was in a different same building. So I still had that lady who was my boss. Every time she would see me, she'd bring it up and bring it up, bring it get up. And then finally I got so fed up with her, I said, she said, so any kids yet? And I said, no, just a couple of miscarriages. Thanks. And it all, it felt so good watching the look on her face as she was, it came watching a monkey used tool. She was like, maybe I shouldn't ask people that.

Katie: Right? Just this slow realization coming to her that, oh, yeah, that was probably inappropriate of me to do. Yeah, for sure. Especially in the job like, oh my gosh, dude,

TJ: She's not talking me since. And we see each other almost every day, and I think, and I'm like, good for you for being some humility. That's

Katie: Hilarious. Oh, that's so funny. Well, so this is a show all about mental health and in a lot of ways what we're talking about is related to mental health, and you've mentioned mental health a few times already. So talk to me a little bit more about why does mental health matter to you? Why does doing something like this help your mental health? I feel like it really has.

TJ: Sure. Well, you know this about me, but the audience doesn't. And I am quite anticon conformity to a flawed degree, and it comes up as a joke most of the time. But in general, I tend to just steer away from pretty much anything that is pushed upon me or expected of me. So my father is Asian and Asians, I'm sorry. I just tend to be culturally very anti mental health.

They take it very seriously. You don't need to talk to anyone else. You don't need an emotional support system. You are my kid, and I raised you to be strong and not cry, and that's all right. So I remember telling my dad once, I was like, oh, I think I might want to be a therapist. I was just a dumb kid. I didn't know clearly I don't want to be a therapist. I'd be so bad at it. I think I'd have no repeat customers get over it. But my dad was like, oh, you don't want to be in mental health. That's not a real business. I'm like, what? Of course it is. So it was like a core memory, him telling me that therapy is just like a scam. So because of that and because of my unconformities, I've always kind of latched onto that mental health is important just to go against his belief, and now it's ingrained in me. It just is very important that, I don't know, the adventure of life can be big or small. You can go near far. You're a rare desert flower. You never moved out of Vegas. So some people might say like, oh, she's still in her hometown or whatever. But no, the adventure you take is in here. It's in here. So this needs to be healthy for you to even consider your life worth a damn.

Katie: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I like that your mental health journey started off as being rebellious. You're like, fuck this mental health matters. Because yeah, I think for a long time, society has really pushed it down as, oh, those are just crazy people, whatever. And now we're in a new age in which mental health is given a lot more credit, and we're talking about it right now, and it's so powerful. It's so important. But in some ways, and this might be a difficult subject for some to understand, but in some ways we've kind of gone so much the other direction that we have all of these people who life is hard, life sucks, we're all just struggling, and I'm feeling anxious, but does that mean that I have a DHD and I'm really suffering and I need to be on medication and I can't focus at work? Does that mean that I really need to go down this a DD path? For me, it's interesting because there are people who are severely a DD or A DHD or severely anxious or have severe depression, and they struggle and I see them every day struggle. And then there are other people who are just using these terms as a new trendy way to say, oh, hey, life sucks. And it's hard.

TJ: Have anxiety right now is the cool thing. I mean, you look at the TikTok generation, and it always bothers me when I see, I don't watch TikTok, but of course they pop up in social media at various places. It always bothers me when I see someone who set up their camera and lit the room and then frame themselves and put their makeup on to show them having a panic attack in their room. And I've had panic attacks. I'm sure you have too. It's like I could not, I couldn't think. Don't think phone enough for the Never do that. Yeah. It's so weird that our parents are just, or at least mine are, we're just so anti mental health and you hold it in, and I feel like our kids, I don't

Katie: Know,

TJ: Don't have any kids, but our kids. It's the cool thing to do. It's such an overcorrection. And then that's why I said people like us are the middle child of emotional trauma because we do fall in the middle, but we fall in the middle that neither side can connect with us. Our mental health isn't cool. It's passe. And then to our parents, it doesn't exist at all.

Katie: Exactly. Exactly. Now, I'm actually glad that you went back and explained that that kind of middle child feeling, because you look at X and I feel like Gen X is kind of like the middle child of generations. We just forget about 'em. But in the way that you just said it, we absolutely are stuck right there in the middle. We were the first and last generation to go outside and ride our bikes and go home and get on a OL. So we were the very first and last to experience some of those things in their own authentic ways. And you are so right. I see these people going on social media having complete breakdowns, and I'm like, I would never able to even function to do that during a breakdown. I'm having a massive panic attack. I'm not going to go show the world that.

And then a lot of people, and so let's talk about this. So a lot of people talk about in this social media versus mental health, in our millennial and our Gen Zs, a lot of millennials and Gen Zs are struggling with mental health. They're calling this our mental health pandemic. We're in an epidemic and we absolutely are. People are struggling, but going online and to show your breakdown is probably not the way to get past whatever breakdown you're experiencing because people are cruel online and there's no reason to be making money or making fun or making light of that. I find that there's a balance. There's got to be a balance to show that, yeah, we struggle, but to not go online during a breakdown.

TJ: Yeah, it's a fine line because I'm not accusing, for example, the TikTok example I did, I'm not accusing that person of faking.

Katie: No, not at all.

TJ: But it's almost like they get this release of endorphins, of validity

Katie: By

TJ: Showboating it. That's interesting. And I think that that sort of dissuades the point. It makes it more of a joke. It

Katie: Makes light of

TJ: It, it doesn't normalize it. It just makes it this even more taboo topic that like, oh,

Katie: That's interesting.

TJ: Yeah. It's like, oh, you're not depressed. You're not one of the cool kids.

Katie: Yeah, it doesn't make it normal. I like that you said that because I don't that it

TJ: Does make it normal. It doesn't support getting over it. It doesn't support working on it. It supports just highlighting it and repeating it and repeating it for views.

Katie: Yes. Yeah. So that's actually a really great point because then this leads into that idea of trauma. So trauma is our new hot button word these days. Everyone has trauma and we, we have generational trauma. Bad shit happens. PTSD is real. It is. But I think that you're right, we focus so much in on the trauma that we cycle around it versus talking and working through getting past the trauma. It's almost like getting past your mental health or getting better in your mental health journey isn't cool. The things that make that get more likes online are the things that were like, oh me at the beginning of 2024 and me at the end of 2024 a mess. Those are the ones that get the most likes. The people coming on talking about how awful life is, those are the things that get the more engagement versus the people that are like, Hey, here are some tools that I'm using on a healing journey and they're working for me. And I just find that really interesting. You really brought that up.

TJ: Yeah. Mental health is an exercise. You got to work at it. It's like going to the gym and lifting the weights or running the mile or whatever. It's an exercise that you build up this immunity to more than once. I have called you during a panic attack and you helped me center myself. And I have since used those tools like, oh, okay, well, it's 3:00 AM I'm not going to call K or my wife or whatever. I'm just going to sit here and I'm going to center myself and use those tools. It's an exercise, but in contrast, it's just like going back to the influencer culture. You see these people at the actual gym, and they're not lifting the weights. They're not running, they're setting their phone up and they take the one pounder and then they spend more time setting up. They got their little, yep. If they were to actually show up and be completely ripped and jacked, they'd be like, oh, they're so old boomers. They're actually working out

Katie: Going, the gym is really hard these days because of the amount of content creators and people just sitting there on the phone, what the F are you doing? Stop sitting on your phone. Other people are waiting for that machine. It drives me crazy. Really

TJ: Does. Yeah. I can't go to the gym, but there are gyms that irrelevant sidebar, but there are gyms that offer, you can't do that here. Oh, really?

Katie: Oh, that's cool. They probably cost more money, which I don't have. So

TJ: Yeah,

Katie: You go to your standard EOSI think

TJ: Only influencers afford to go there, ironically.

Katie: Right, right. Yeah. Wow. So that's really interesting. So tell me, as a millennial, as somebody who has mental health, as somebody who's been on your own mental health journey, the pandemic was hard on all of us. Tell me what you think. What did you do and how do you think that millennials should be approaching their mental health moving forward? Because what I'll say before you answer this question is I think that you're in a much healthier mental state now than you were at the beginning of this pandemic. And I think that what you produced has been really, really cool, but you had to intentionally make a change and take some action, and you're not a professional, but you are a millennial with lived experience. So how do you think that millennials should be approaching their mental health

TJ: Selfishly and with the asterisk of a healthy selfishness? You're not selfish in that. You're taking from the needy or sticking your nose up at the poor homeless guy down the street. It's selfishness that you're doing what's necessary for you at all times. Setting boundaries, loving yourself. I don't mean loving yourself in a talking point in a way. I mean loving yourself and I'm badass. I love me. I love hanging out with me. I love the things that I do. I was never a very good film major. I actually hate showing off my work.

And when I started writing this musical, it was for me, it was a hundred percent for me. I wasn't going to show anybody, probably not you, probably not my wife, probably not the damn dog. It was for me. I just wanted something fun to do for me to build myself up. And then I was like, God, God, I missed this, and I think I'm a good writer. And then when I, that's the thing, I started loving myself too much. Then I started showing people, I was like, I wanted to brag about myself. And there's a difference between bragging about yourself to build yourself up and just talking yourself up to boost your ego. That is already big. You know what I mean?

Katie: Yeah. There's a big difference between that ego and that self, that soul. And I think, yeah, it's selfishly for your soul, not selfishly for your ego. And I've seen you making great strides, so I'm glad that you shared it with the world because I think that at one point, yeah, it's important to tell the world that you're doing something amazing, but to do that authentically, and I think that this exactly what you've done, and I think that's why this just turning out really well. So I'm really excited to see the product. So when does the first episode drop?

TJ: So we're aiming for, oh my God, it's a new year. We're aiming for the end of January. We did have a goal in Mind of Debuting late last year, 2024. And then once we kind of missed that goal, I kind of realized that I was being a little bit too, I was driving my actions of the musical based on my fear that someone might beat me to it, and not necessarily that we are going to put out a good product if we had just rushed it out to meet the date that I wanted, it probably wouldn't have been as marketable or as poignant. Yeah,

Katie: That's awesome.

TJ: We're aiming for the end of January, but I think it probably might be early February. But either way, we're pretty much done. We have one more weekend left in studio, and that's this weekend, two days from now, and we have the whole cast is coming in and we're doing, I specifically chose the favorite songs for us to record this weekend because it'll be kind of like a last raw, these are the songs that they're like earworms that the cast has been singing outside of studio just because they love them so much. So I played those songs as The Hurrah, and everyone's going to be in studio and we're all going to have a good time and go out for drinks after and

Katie: Good stuff.

TJ: But those songs are at the tail end of the musical, so the first half is pretty much done. It's in the can. I'm just waiting for, we got to ask sound effects, like I said, the HG Wells kind of thing got sound effects to tell the story.

Katie: Cool. So a few last minute details and where can people follow you so they know when it drops?

TJ: Yeah, we're mostly active on the Instagram, which is at DINK the Musical. Again, that's DINK. And we do have a TikTok. I'm not very active on TikTok, so there's nothing really there other than the trailer. But mainly we have a website and that is DINK the musical.com. And there we have production updates and cast photos and yeah.

Katie: That's so sweet. I'm excited. I've been following the journey. I'll be there tuning in. So I just think that it's a really creative idea. I'm glad that you're doing it, doing it right, and I really appreciate you for coming on. But before we leave, I want to ask you one last question, and that is just kind of a general question is what does happiness mean to you?

TJ: Wow. Curve ball.

Katie: I know. Threw it at you.

TJ: Happiness to me is being okay with the good and the bad. I've been married so long now. Sometimes I feel like, oh, we're just, it's a Sunday, we should be out doing something or I don't know, I feel obligated to, I don't want to say spice things up or whatever, but I find it to be happy when I'm okay with sitting there and watching TV all Sunday with her and not pressuring myself to think I have to keep the day interesting or being upset that it's not interesting happening to me is just the little things. I guess they make the big things so much more. Yeah.

Katie: That's beautiful. Thank you so much. I love that.

TJ: Can I add one thing?

Katie: Yeah, ofcourse

TJ: Get back to the healthy selfishness thing, and that's why to bring it all together. That's kind of why the reason the big musical came together is because I've heard, just like at your wedding, people telling you when are you going to have kids? When you got to have kids? And every time I've told someone, no, or mind your own business, oh, well that's just so selfish of you. You owe me a nephew or you owe me a grandson. You know what I mean? That's so selfish of you that you would take that from me. Well, first of all, that's selfish of you that you would bestow that upon me. But yeah, to me, it's a healthy selfishness to choose to have kids if you want them, and it's a healthy selfishness to choose not to have kids if you don't or if you're unsure.

Katie: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, no, thank you for rounding that off. I think that's right. A lot of people will tell us that we're selfish for living a DINK lifestyle or for whatever decision that you make. I often think that I am very selfish because I'm choosing to chase my dreams instead of having kids. And frankly, I mean, everyone says that, oh, you can have it all. And that's just not how it works. If I choose to have kids, I am putting my dreams on hold in some way. I cannot do both at the same time. Not until the kid is a little older at least, and can think for themselves in some way and eat their own food. So it's hard work to have children and millennials. We've been through a lot. I think we're, if you choose not to, I'm cool with it, but no, I get it. A lot of people really put that pressure on us. There's a lot of societal pressures, and I like that you're standing up and saying, fuck that. You don't need to have kids. You don't need to follow what society deems you to do. You can choose you and to be happy, and that's what it's all about.

TJ: Me and the cat are doing more than just saying that We're

Katie: Singing it. We're singing it. Oh, I'm so excited. I've heard a couple of the songs. I thought they were great. I'm really excited to see them all together. So I'm like most people, I'm in the dark on a lot of it, but I think that's cool. It's going to be really fun, and I'll do everything I can to push it out. But in the meantime, anything else before we wrap up on my very first episode of season three?

TJ: It's funny you just said the word wrap it up. I did just want to promote real quick, the DINK, the musical has partnered with rap, which is W-R-R-A-P, so double R's there, and it's the Women's, excuse me, women's Reproductive Rights Assistant Program. So basically their goal is just to, well, what they do is they help low-income families or individuals contraceptives, and they do help those who are choosing to terminate find a healthy provider, and in some cases they assist with the finances, but their mission statement ultimately is our body, our choice, and it was a no-brainer to partner with them as well.

Katie: That's amazing. Yeah, it's a very pro-choice musical, and I'm cool with that. I'm very pro-choice myself and absolutely is our body our choice. And you live in Texas, so I know that you are right in the middle of a lot of difficulties around that area, so that's cool. Good stuff. We be political, tj. I love it.

TJ: You know me. I was never political. Now, I hate it. I hate it.

Katie: Begrudgingly been forced to be political. I think in some ways I have too. I don't like politics on a federal level in any way, but on a state level, on the healthcare level and mental health, I'm into it and I can't not be. So yeah, it matters. And I appreciate you coming on telling your story, telling about the musical and just being open, and this was such a great episode to Open Up season three, really hoping to make Season three a little bit more about the audience. So you guys tell me what you want to listen to. I'd love to have more of these topics that we're all really thinking about. So with that, we'll go ahead and wrap it up, but join us live every first and third Wednesday of the month at PR Connections!