WMH 13: Addiction, Recovery, Homelessness, and Human Up

This is a transcript of Watching Mental Health Episode 13 with Dave Marlon which you can watch and listen to here:

Katie Waechter: Hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of Watching Mental Health. Thank you so much for joining me today because I am really excited today to bring our guest to the forefront. It is my distinct honor to welcome Dave Marlon to the show, and he is a 30 year Las Vegas resident. He's been consistently recognized by his peers as a leader in the field of mental health. And after successfully addressing his own struggles with substance abuse, David realized that he was in a unique situation to help and confront addiction.

To help others confront addiction, he found and built Las Vegas, excuse me, Vegas Stronger. He is the president of the Southern Nevada Association of Addiction Professionals and he received the 2018 National Advocacy Award from the N-A-A-D-A-C, the Association for Addiction Professionals. He served on the governor's substance abuse working group, and his work in the recovery sector has earned him the Inspired Excellence Award from Las Vegas. Heal Davis founded the Care Coalition in addition to Vegas Stronger the Solution foundation. And both of these combination, both of these organizations combat substance abuse in southern Nevada. Dave serves on the help of Southern Nevada and the Las Vegas Rescue Mission boards, and he was even featured in A and e's Emmy Award-Winning Show Intervention. He's an expert on the topic of addiction, recovery and homelessness, and it is just my honor to have him on watching mental health today to talk more about these subjects openly. And so without further ado, let's bring Dave on and start getting into it.

Dave Marlon: Thanks, Katie. It's an honor to be here and I'm grateful that you are helping normalize discussions about mental health. It's important to reduce stigma, so thank you for what you're doing and I'm honored to be on your podcast.

Katie: Thank you so much. And that's absolutely what the show is all about is normalizing these conversations, breaking down the stigma, sharing your own stories. And I know that you have had quite a journey, both I think personally and professionally with these topics. And so tell us in your own words, Dave, who you are and what brings here today.

Dave: Well, who I am is I'm a dad. I have two sons. I am also a brother. I have two sisters. I have an amazing mom who I still have a great relationship with and I recently earned a doctorate in psychology. I'm a dually licensed clinician. I have a license of alcohol and drug counseling as a supervisor and a clinical professional counselor as an intern. I do operate a nonprofit in the corridor of Hope downtown Las Vegas called Vegas Stronger. And we provide immediate access to an evidence-based clinical services, mostly for the unhoused, but really for anybody who needs it regardless of ability to

Katie: Pay. I think that's amazing. I have toured Vegas stronger and just fell in love with the place. I think the work that you guys are doing is so powerful and so understated. You're right there in the community every day working with people who are unhoused, working with people who do have addiction and people don't realize it's a daily process. It's a daily grind to really help folks in these areas. It's not just about the big stuff. It's not just about going out and talking about it. It's about putting in the work and Vegas stronger does that. And I think that that's so amazing that you've really built this community and I've really seen it happen firsthand from my end how it's impacted people.

Dave: Thanks for saying that. I would reframe one word you said to me. This is a daily joy that I get to do, not a daily grind. And we have about 60 new humans who walk in our door every week and we get to get each one. They all start with a clinical assessment, a biopsy, psych and social assessment that we do. We then have a meet with case management, often with one of our four psychiatric providers, peers. We have peer support specialists as well as our fitness instructors, our yogis, our salon staff. So we have a kind of a comprehensive wellness approach. And I'm grateful that we get to help about 60 new people each week. And as we walk around Las Vegas, anyone who's in our city can tell that we have a crisis of people who are unhoused, people who were panhandling, people who aren't living in a healthy way. And to me, regardless of the proposals to help solve that right now, I know that having immediate access to evidence-based treatment is one of the pillars to solving this crisis. So that's what we do here in Vegas, stronger, and it's a joy for me to get to do it each day and as well as the 80 plus people who work here, to me, we're all in and we love what we do and getting to be of service.

Katie: Yeah, I've really recognized that from the folks that work there, I think many of whom have had perhaps their own struggles and they know how to then turn around and help others who are struggling. And you're right, it is a crisis that we have here, I think in southern Nevada in particular with housing. And we've seen bills come and go and die on the line in the legislative sessions, but that hasn't stopped you from putting in that daily joy as you say that, from putting in that work that you know can do. And that's just so inspiring to me because a lot of people will say, we have a crisis but can't do anything about it. That's it, whatever. But that's not the way that we should be approaching it. Even if our policymakers aren't making the moves that we want them to make, we can make moves every single day.

Dave: Not only does that in turn help the people who we connect with and help, but it also helps us because we get to be of service. We get to be doing something meaningful, which in turn gives us meaning. So anybody who's throwing up their hands, pointing at the government saying, why aren't they fixing it? I take a totally different approach. Why aren't you fixing it? Why aren't you working on this? Because this is something we all have a role in. We could all help effectuate a better community helping, because each of us, we help people one at a time. So anytime you could either transport or direct somebody down here to get help or support somebody who is getting help here in addressing variety of challenges that they have in their life, we welcome all help, and I appreciate you taking the time to shine a little bit of light on what we're doing here. So thank you.

Katie: Yeah, absolutely. It's like you've been saying, it happens on a local level and helping others. We don't have to wait for the big government to come in. We can do it every day and we should. And I think that you're right. It does help you when you help others. So tell me more about why this work matters to you, how you got into it.

Dave: Well, this is a long story, so you might have to cut me off for time, but I'll tell you that I used to run an HMO in town, the largest health maintenance organization, and I drank too much. And when I got sober back in 2005, I very quickly had an epiphany and then recognized I didn't want to stay at the HMO that I wanted to get to work and help people. So I opened up a drug rehab called Solutions Recovery, and it grew over the 11 years that I owned it. It grew to be a 400 bed treatment center, and we helped about 7,000 people address a substance use disorder. I ended up selling it to a New York Stock Exchange, publicly traded company. And while they wrote me a big check and to me in America, and as I was raised, I was told, get money is what you're supposed to do.

So I sort of felt like I was doing good, but after I sold it, I engaged in prayer and it was very clear on what I should do next. And instead of opening up a treatment center like I did that helped people in Summerland and Green Valley, and now I've opened up a little treatment center, treatment center right on North Main Street within walking distance of about 2000 shelter beds. So hopefully providing the same treatment that we use to provide our top half of the socioeconomic strata, now we offer it to anybody. So it really happened to me in prayer that I had to go against the grain of the American way, which I could have taken another job in corporate America or run a different insurance company or a provider, but I really wanted to give back and be of service, and I'm so grateful that we get to make a difference in people's lives every day.

Katie: Yeah, that's absolutely true. And you went right where the people are who are struggling. Not to say that people in Summerland aren't struggling, but I think in the heart of where we have some of our most acute mental health crises and unhoused people who really don't know where to turn and you, you're giving them that access. And so I think that that's just really powerful. So tell me more about how we as a community are maybe not dealing with homelessness and how maybe we can be making some changes in that area. It seems like it's a really big part of what you've preyed on and what you've turned to is helping individuals who don't have housing and maybe who don't have a support system.

Dave: Well, there's a bunch of myths. One myth is that there's an affordable housing crisis, and that's why the unhoused are on our streets, and that's a myth that is not true. Now, I'm not telling you that we don't have an affordable housing crisis because housing prices have become too high and there is a percentage of the population that's getting squeezed, and that's a giant problem. But that's not the problem of 99% of the people on the street. The people who are on the street today, they either have a mental illness or they have a substance use disorder. Now that's for the folks who are on the street. And if you know the numbers, about 6,400 people are unhoused in the point in time count. And of those, about half of them are in the shelters. They're staying at Salvation Army or Catholic Charities or Shade Tree.

Now, if you or I got pushed out of our dwelling, I would think that you or I, we would go to the shelter and say, Hey, I need a bed tonight. I need a clean bathroom. I need some food. Can you help me get back on my feet? The people who are not willing to do that, but they choose to take some shopping carts and put a tarp over it and set up a tent or go into the tunnels, those people are generally avoiding the social safety net, and they're wanting to be separated from those helping systems, and they were wanting to for a reason. And to me, the reasons are a mental illness or a substance use disorder. So for the unhoused homeless that about half of 'em, what we need to do as a community is we need to stop enabling. We need to stop encouraging them to be homeless.

We need to stop even propagating and creating more homelessness. And we do that by giving them money. We do that by giving them blankets or tents. We do that even by giving them food because there are available shelter beds each night in our city. So the only reason someone is on the corner at your street being a vagrant panhandling, it's because they've made a conscious decision. They don't want to go to the available shelter beds. And what we need to do as a community is we need to stop enabling that unhealthy behavior. People shouldn't be not having clean restrooms. They shouldn't be sleeping under overpasses or in the flood tunnels of Vegas. That is not healthy for them. It's not healthy for our families, and it's really giving our city and the brand of Las Vegas a bad reputation and a bad name. So it really hurts everybody involved. So the first thing all of us could do as a community is if you or your civic or your church group want to make sandwiches and go bring them down to people in the corner, please stop. If you want to bring sandwiches down, bring it to one of the shelters, bring it to the courtyard, bring it to Vegas stronger, so the people who are coming in and getting help, they could be fed. We don't want to be enticing and encouraging people to leave the social safety net and panhandle because that hurts the whole system.

Katie: That is so interesting. I've never heard that before, but I've never asked somebody who's an expert in this. And so that's really, really interesting because you think that you're helping when you go and you maybe give someone food on the street, but you're right, that correlation. Yeah, and that correlation between substance abuse and mental health or mental illness with homelessness, that's a strong correlation. And that's why I really like what Vegas Stronger does because you're not just trying to house people. You're really trying to apply good interventions that are well-researched, addressing the root call. Yeah, and I know that you've mentioned that you have really been strong on wanting to use those kinds of interventions that are research driven, that are, we know that they work. And so what kind of interventions are those?

Dave: Well, one statistic that I was shocked when I was getting my doctorate was that the Medicaid or the underserved population, more than 90% of the treatment for substance use disorders that they receive in the United States is not evidence-based treatment. And to me, that's a travesty. And the fact that if when I got sober, I could go to a place like the Betty Ford Center and have access to medications to have access to evidence-based counseling and case management, that privilege was something that I was afforded. And it's unjust. It is not right that particularly minority communities, they have much less access to culturally appropriate evidence-based treatment, and you asked specifically what we use. It's a combination of Medicaid, excuse me, medication assisted treatment because we found that people with alcohol use disorder or opiate use disorder, and now even methamphetamine use disorder while counseling is the best way to help them through that. Counseling is more effective when it's combined with some medications, non-narcotic, addicting medications to help them through the process of reducing cravings. Many of the drugs will even prevent cause a blockade, so they won't even be able to access the substance. So it really helps bolster recovery. We do that in combination with therapeutic interventions like cognitive behavioral therapy, motivational interviewing. Those are two of the largest ones integrated with medication assisted treatment.

Katie: Wow. It's such an important, I think, combination to be able to offer these various services because yeah, everybody is a little bit different in their treatment and what they need. And I think that the substance abuse can add that extra, it can add another layer to it that maybe when it comes to medication, people aren't sure how to address. And so I like that it's that combination. I think that you're right, research shows that that's the type of stuff that really gets the best results. And it sounds like you're really helping people come in, get some interventions and then send them back out into the world with your support. Is that how it works?

Dave: It is. Generally, most of our clients, if they come in unhoused without any resources, most will start in a shelter bed for a week or so. They generally progress quickly to either a sober living or a transitional living facility. And many of them will stay there for a year or six months or a period of time until they're ready to move towards independent living. And we like being with them through each step in the journey. But as a licensed drug and alcohol counselor, I know that addiction is a primary condition and that if somebody has a fentanyl dependency and they're unhoused and people say, oh my goodness, we need to get them a house. They're missing the fact that they have a primary condition. And if they were having a heart attack, nobody would say that. They would say, oh my goodness, we need to address their cardiac needs. Well, to me as a clinician, I look at a substance use disorder or if somebody has schizophrenia or a severe bipolar disorder and they're not able to manage that until we treat these primary conditions focusing on housing or employment or some of these other needs, it's inappropriate. We need to address primary conditions first. Of course, every person who walks in, we want them to sleep in a bed, so we don't want anybody to be unhoused, but generally they go through progressive levels of housing while they're with us as they become ready for it.

Katie: Wow. And what has your success rate been these last few years? Have you really seen people go up and make some amazing things happen?

Dave: I have been astounded. I had a feeling that people who were unhoused needed counseling, and I had a gut feeling when we created Vegas stronger, but we've been in existence for seven years now. And hold on your hat. 86% of people who do our treatment end up staying abstinent, end up getting housed, end up getting either employed or having some kind of federal funding streams so they could be self-sufficient, 86%. So I had a feeling it would be good. I did not think it would be that good, but we measure the outcomes on every single client. And so far, the results have exceeded my hopes and expectations.

Katie: That's amazing. It shows that what you're doing is working and that it's not just about getting someone housed, it's about addressing what's really going on. And so this is a great segue to my next question, and I like to ask most of my guests this and that, and also with your personal experience, I think you might, I'm interested in your opinion and really that is what do you think or do you think that a mental health diagnosis or condition, is that something that can be overcome, that can be solved and then you never have to worry about it again? Or is it something that you will always have and that you have to consistently work at? Or do you think it's something in the middle?

Dave: I'm so glad you asked me that. And I'm a person in long-term recovery, and I'm a person with multiple mental illness diagnoses.

And to me, you and I, we have different faces. Our faces look different, but we're both humans now, believe it or not. I believe our brains are different. And I think one person's brains might be wired tighter. One person's brains may have more propensity for to depression. One might have a propensity to having attention deficit disorder. Somebody might have mood swings just like some people are left-handed, some people are right-handed, just like I have a problem. Once I put some drinks in me, I've learned that I don't have control over them. So what I've learned is that my substance use disorder, which I still have the diagnosis today, even though I haven't had a drug or a drink in over 18 years, I still have that same wired brain now. I've turned that substance use disorder or that diagnosis into one of my greatest strengths, and I have the ability to talk to other people with a substance use disorder and say, you know what?

Even though I'm hardwired as a party animal, if you would've asked me old Dave, I would tell you that I have learned that there's ways to make adjustments to my life to be able to manage that. Now, I also alluded to the fact that I have some hyperactivity and attention deficit disorders, and I've learned that there's some things that I could do to be able to, I always have lists next to me where I write down things. So if I want to accomplish things, I recognize that I might have thoughts that happen more so than maybe other people, but I learned that there's ways that I could use them, one, to be productive and supportive and to help people, but also there's ways that I could help manage that just like I manage my substance use disorder by not drinking alcohol.

Now when I get low, I've learned that engaging in a fitness program every single day, whether I feel like engaging in or whether I don't, I found that that's really helped me one to get through it, and it's also helped me feel better about myself because I feel strong. And that's really empowering. So to me, I don't consider any mental health diagnosis. I don't consider it a disability. I think what it is, it's a label we've created in the DSM, the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual to help us identify that. When I look at your face versus my face, mine has some hair on it. It doesn't mean I'm good or bad. It means I have some hair on my face, but I've learned how to, it's helpful when I go skiing, I let it grow a little more and it helps keep my face a little warmer. So I think each one of these differences between us are things that we could learn to leverage and actually convert them into strengths, whatever it is. I have a person who helps me with my compliance. Now, they may or may not have an anxiety disorder, but I like the fact that, well, I don't worry about very much that I have somebody in compliance that worries about everything and I wouldn't want it any other way. I've learned that that's a strength that we're able to utilize. So just like I wouldn't consider ethnicity of a person, a strength or a weakness, it's a difference. And with that comes modifications that we need to make as well as there's really opportunities.

Katie:Yeah, absolutely. I love that it's leveraging the way that your brain is wired and everyone is wired differently. And so I think that's so powerful. And I think that, so you've mentioned, or we've talked previously, and you're really wanting people, our community to human up. And I know that you're wanting to take that further, and I think that you're the right person. I love what you're saying, and that motivation, that inspiration, we need more of that in our lives. So what are you doing to help the community human up in your words?

Dave: Thank you. As you know, you are helping me create a podcast of my own calling Human Up with Dave Marlon. And to me, I call it human up because it's not gendered, it's not political, it's not based on your nationality, your sexuality. To me, we're each humans, I like to think about it as each of us are a glowing orb. And to me, once you recognize that we're going through this spiritual experience, and if you look at each person, not in their body, but as an orb and some people, their orb burns very brightly. And you could just tell when you're around them, you feel warm, that they're a helper, that they're on fire for life. And to me, they've learned to have their orb to be bright and healthy. And to me, I encourage everyone to acknowledge their human condition and that we all have the ability through our diet, through our exercise, through our service, through our spirituality, through our meditation, to be the best human we could be.

And I'll close with the fact that I'm a big American, and I love that we live in America, and I love our country. However, in commercialism, there is a light that shines like, Ooh, we need to get Ferraris and stuff. And to me it's, listen, I have nothing against Ferraris. However, I'm going to tell you it's an illusion. And it's one thing as a person with a substance use disorder that I learned that there's no amount of drugs, there's no amount of alcohol, there's no amount of sex, there's no amount of money that could make me feel good by being a good human, by human up. That's what helps us really enjoy the human experience as we were made to do. So, I encourage folks not to get caught up in commercialism and not to get caught up in many of the compulsive behaviors of American life today. And I encourage everyone to human up.

Katie: Yes, absolutely. And I think that it's important that no matter where you're at in life, you can choose today to human up, like you said, if that's putting back your cart in the grocery store, if that's giving your time down at a shelter, we can all do something to human up. No matter where we are at in life, we don't have to wait until we're big business people. We can do it right now. And that's how we make our community better. I think

Dave: One of my favorite stories I'm going to tell you really quick is when I was in an institution, when I was in rehab myself, when I had three days clean, actually, I'm going to tell you the whole story. When I came in, I was a little amped up and the owner took my check, they sent me to a room, and some guy was in my room, and I said, who are you? And he said, my name's Brent. And he said, bro, you're a little worked up right now. I would kind of take some breaths and I'd laid down because they're going to wake us up at six in the morning. We're going to have to make our bed have breakfast so we can get to a meeting by seven. So I would chill. And I was like, huh. And I looked at him and I was like, well, thank you.

Well, two days later, a lady came into the rehab and she was crying, and then she was fighting with people, and then she stormed into the den and I was sitting on the couch and she said, who are you? I said, well, I'm Dave Marlon. I'm in room two. And you seem a little worked up right now, and if I were you, I'd take a couple of deep breaths and I would lay down because they're going to wake us up at 6:00 AM and we got to make our bed. And what I learned is that when I was three days clean and sober, that nobody was better at helping a one day sober person than me. So me, if you're very early in your recovery from a mental illness, from a substance use disorder, from a physical illness, from anything, that you happen to be the perfect person to talk to somebody else who's a little earlier on in that journey that all of us could be of help to others.

Katie:Yeah, definitely. Wow, what a great story. I just love that. This was such a great interview. I'm so excited for your podcast. I will be a dedicated listener, and I'm just so grateful. So we're going to end here. Let everyone know how they can get in touch with you, and then we'll go ahead and end the episode.

Dave: My name's David Marlon. You can find me on any social network. I'm on LinkedIn, TikTok, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, or X. You could also reach out to me at david.marlon@vegasstronger.org. Thank you very much. Appreciate you having me, Katie.

Katie: Thank you so much. And join us every first and third Wednesday for another conversation around mental health, on watching mental health. Thanks everyone. Talk to you later.

Dave: Don't drink!

Katie: Thank you for watching this podcast!