WMH S2 Ep1: Mental Health and Peer Support in the Community

This is a transcript of Watching Mental Health Season 2, Episode 1 with Ashley Floyd which you can watch and listen to here:

Katie Waechter: Hi everyone and welcome to another episode of Watching Mental Health and welcome to our second season. This is season two officially underway. I am really excited about today because we have a fabulous guest coming on who is actually a pretty close friend of mine. We've worked together for the last seven years probably. It's just wild how time flies and she's just a wonderful person. And so I'm so excited to introduce Ashley Floyd and she's the program director of the mental health nonprofit, NAMI Southern Nevada.

Talked about NAMI Southern Nevada before and with her family and personal mental health diagnoses and a desire to give back, she began volunteering in 2017 and that's when I began volunteering with NAMI Southern Nevada. So we really started our NAMI Southern Nevada journey together and she started as a presenter sharing her mental health recovery journey. And then after that I became a presenter as well and really just kind of followed in her footsteps and she's just been inspiring the entire way. She later became a peer and family support group facilitator. She's also a peer teacher, a youth presenter, and a state trainer. She knows her stuff. She's so skilled, especially as a peer support person. I've seen her in action. Ashley leads our staff or leads the NAMI Southern Nevada staff with grace and compassion and does just an outstanding job at making, I think the staff feel heard, but then also encouraging them to continue the NAMI mission, which is so important I think, to both of us.

So she is just really an inspiration. She's got a bachelor's degrees in communications and her master's is in leadership and policy studies, and her previous career was in higher education. So again, she knows her stuff. So I'm so excited to bring on Ashley Floyd and to talk a little bit about mental health and the community peer support, what NAMI is doing, what Las Vegas is doing, and how we can make a difference because she has her own personal mental health journey to share. And I just think it's so powerful. And so without further ado, let's welcome Ashley to the stage. Hello. Hi Ashley. Thank you so much for joining me today. I'm so excited to finally have you on.

Ashley Floyd: I'm also excited. Very excited.

Katie: Thank you. Well, I've been wanting to have you on for a while, actually, since I first started, but I knew I needed to start with tr, who's our executive director. But the whole time I was like, I know it's going to be really great to have you. So I'm just glad that you finally were able to make an appearance and to talk a little bit about who you are. And so without a further ado, tell us in your own words who you are and why you're here today.

Ashley: Alright, thank you. I am definitely a person that is compassionate and supportive. I do a lot for other people because I love service, I love giving and I especially love giving towards my family members, my friends, my colleagues, and the community. I would describe myself as a passionate person for developing people to meet their full potential. I have a passion for helping build character development and leadership skills. And I also serve as a servant leader in my community with my faith organization and in my mental health volunteer and professional roles. So I do with nami, volunteer a lot of hours towards programs, but as I work with NAMI in nami, I'm also able to be a person that guides our staff towards supporting and educating and advocating for the individuals that are impacted by mental illness. So compassionate, supportive, passionate, servant leader, mental health professional, I think would describe me.

Katie: I think that's amazing and I think that you're pretty spot on from what I've seen of you. I see how passionate you are about mental health, about leadership, about community, and then I also see how passionate you are about your family and about your faith. And I just think that that is so wonderful. You don't see too many people these days I think talk about how important family and faith is, and I just always have loved that that's something that you really cherish and that you continue to do full force all the time.

Ashley: I appreciate that too. And what's exciting is with nami, I'm able to work specifically with cultural groups I identify with, whether that's racial identification or faith identification, but it's amazing to be able to take my lived experience, the things I'm passionate about, and do it at a job for probably 50 to 55 hours a week and get paid to do it, do the things that I would do even if I wasn't paid. So that's amazing.

Katie: Yeah, I mean I love that too. To get paid to do the stuff that we're really passionate about is just amazing and not everybody gets to experience that. But at the same time, I think that we put in a lot of extra hours for volunteering because we care so much. And I see that happens with you a lot and sometimes we can be run down. I know that both of us have had our moments where we're like, wait a minute, I need to step back from this for a second.

Ashley: Definitely. And that is so real and it's possibly compassion fatigue can happen that we're just working so hard for others that sometimes we forget ourselves in all the movement. But it definitely with passion, it energizes and it allows us to do things that normally we may not actually do if we didn't have that extra energy and love for what we do.

Katie: That's so true. Yeah. If we didn't love it, we wouldn't put in all the hours because we know it matters. So tell us, why does mental health matter to you? Why did you shift from a higher education, a career in higher education to mental health in this nonprofit world?

Ashley: Yes, it's a very interesting journey for why I have been led to working for nami. And the biggest reasons are that I have personal mental health challenges and a mental health recovery journey that I've gone through. And I also have six family members with diagnosed mental health conditions. And so as a person who's a peer and a family member, I was able to see what lack of mental health did to our family. And being able to volunteer with NAMI then taught me how we could improve in those areas. And so it let me see that there is recovery that's possible. And so being able to use lived experience to inform other people and to break stigma and to end shame and to increase the quality of life and awareness almost to the fact that I know mental health is really mental wealth is kind of how I see it.

And that if our bank account is empty, which happens quite a bit, but if we don't have anything putting back into us, then we are depleted and we can't do anything. And I've noticed throughout my life, whether it's me or my family members, that's what happens. And then my friends, that's what's what happens. And so it is important and it matters to me just from the personal side of being a peer and having family and friends that have gone through these challenges and how I could see the growth when they had the support that they needed or when I had the support that I needed. And I realized, wow, mental health and recovery really is possible. And so it's just a matter of more education, more awareness, more support, more advocacy, all of those things are needed and that's why mental health is important to me.

Katie: Yeah, definitely. I think my story is similar in that I have both peer and family experience and you just see it when you see it every day of your life. It's hard to not go in and try and make a difference, especially when you can recognize that moment of recovery or of hope that recovery is possible. And so tell us a little bit more about when maybe there was a defining moment in your life when you knew that recovery was possible or that hope had come back after it was maybe lost.

Ashley: Yes. I'm actually very excited to share how I ended up in recovery. It first starts though with having mental illness. And so at 10 years old I was diagnosed with depression mostly due to a lot of health issues, bullying, moving around and some family trauma aspects. And so I was depressed and diagnosed at 10 and after a couple years I had been exhibiting different symptoms that we would call mania with just elevated mood, lack of lower need of sleep, a lot of irritability, talkative and impulsive and energetic and all those things, and then keep dropping back down to depression and going up and down. And things in my life got so much worse that at 12 years old I did attempt suicide and I was hospitalized for a week. And then I was given the diagnosis of bipolar disorder and attention deficit hyperactive disorder. So the biggest part of the problem I had about all of this is that as I reflected as I was older, I realized I was never educated about what these illnesses meant and what I should be looking for, like side effects or symptoms and how medicine is relating to my experience.

So I wasn't compliant a lot with my medication or we don't like the word compliant. I forgot the word we said we like to do. I didn't adhere as much to the medication. I just didn't know. I didn't know that when I felt better, it was because of the medicine. So getting off of it, I'd get worse or I felt like, oh, I'm fine. I don't need the medicine or the medicine's giving me side effects. I don't want this. So I really didn't have an opportunity to accept my mental health diagnosis and to understand it. And it took me going through grad school and dropping out of grad school three times due to hospitalization and diagnosis of OCD or obsessive compulsive sleep disorder. And it took dropping out of grad school three times for me to really understand that I needed help. The first time I dropped out though my mother was the beautiful part of the health journey and I would just say because she had been diagnosed with the same disorders while I was in college and I didn't know it all four because I also was diagnosed with generalized anxiety disorder and she was diagnosed with all four while I was in college.

So when I came home, she educated me because she had been going through her own process of learning. She educated me on symptoms, what medicines work, like how to interview providers, how to advocate for myself with providers, how to keep notes of my symptoms and side effects, all these things. And what that did for me was when I found nami, I realized everything NAMI did was what my mom did for me, the education, the support, the advocacy, and I was so excited to be with an organization where I could use my lived experience and help others, especially people who didn't have a mother like mine to help them. So I got involved with nami, I got disability accommodations at my college. I got disability on the government level, and I finally had all my support. I had a doctor, I had doctors, I had therapists, I had medication, I had coping strategies. And that was the beginning of my mental health recovery, having a good treatment plan, having coping strategies, having support, learning and advocating for myself. That was what ultimately led me to recovery. And I'm glad to say I finally graduated and I got my master's in leadership in policy studies and I got employed with nami. I never thought it would work again after dropping out three times, but I was employed by nami. And so my journey just was a journey of self-discovery and self-advocacy and community support.

Katie: Thank you so much. It's an amazing story and I appreciate your vulnerability. I know it can be hard to talk about these things when it comes to it relating to us, but that's part of what breaking down the stigma is, is not just talking about this stuff in the third person but talking about it, how we dealt with it. And what I love that you brought up that I haven't heard anybody else mention yet is that education piece. It's not just getting a diagnosis and then getting treatment. It has to be beyond that. And then it feels to me like going and getting that education that you needed and then being able to surround yourself with the right team that gave you power, that gave you your power back, and then you are able to run with that. That's all we need sometimes. Right?

Ashley: Definitely. Definitely.

Katie: I love that Every time I hear your story just we presented together before, but I'm just really grateful that you again are being really vulnerable. And so to keep on that, you did mention medication as treatment. What does treatment look like to you? It feels like it's more than medication because right, medication should have fixed it a long time ago, but that's not what happened and that's not how life works. So what does treatment look like to you?

Ashley: Well, what I would share is it took a long time for medication to even be a thing that helped me. What I learned was I had so many medications, I was on so many different medications because finding that perfect combination with the different chemical imbalances, one drug that works for one person may not work for another. And what was my breakthrough moment was when I got prescribed a medication for my bipolar disorder and my myalgia. And when they found that drug and that medication worked, that began my ability to then move into what I could do on my own because the medication gave me a more level playing field because my behavioral modifications weren't able to really work as well because there was so much of the chemical imbalance that I couldn't push through it. So once we found that one medication that was able to get all that, and I had been on over 15 different medications before that one, maybe more

Katie: Figure it out

Ashley: For years, I was diagnosed at 10 and misdiagnosed at 10, and then by the time I was 26, I had finally found the right medication. So once medication is a huge part of my mental health recovery journey, but to credit what you're sharing, once I got that level playing field, then I had to focus on what I could do something about. And that included going to therapy that included working with professionals that I felt comfortable with and letting go of professionals that weren't going to listen to me. I feel like that's the piece that NAMI's always pushing for is being allowed to share the lived experience and validate the peer and the family role. And so I would have my mother come in to some of my appointments with me because as a peer I would not see the things she's seen, I'm understanding internal and she's seeing the external.

So having my mother be a part of some of my doctor appointments really helped. And with therapy, I also had different workbooks that really helped me process things better. I remember my mother got me a bipolar workbook and that was really helpful because I needed to process what my disorder was doing and what the medicine was doing to help. And so also on top of that with treatment, because I had physical issues and physical pain can create mental stress and vice versa, finding holistic opportunities as well was really important to my treatment plan. And things like a chiropractor, the acupuncture, those different things were really helpful for me too because it allowed for some relief. One other thing I did with treatment and I needed hospitalization. Sometimes I've been hospitalized twice and I've been in partial hospitalization and intensive outpatient at least three or four times. And those were really important. And I would say it's compared to if you break your foot and you need to go to the doctor immediately you go to the emergency room because that's an emergency. So I have a mental health breakdown, then I need to go to the emergency. So those are different treatments that I have used and they've been really helpful for me.

Katie: I love that you have both a traditional and a non-traditional approach to your treatment. I didn't even know that you had utilized acupuncture or chiropractor. I've only recently learned more about how acupuncture can be beneficial for your mental health. Have you been doing that a lot?

Ashley: So I did the acupuncture more when I lived in Memphis. So when I lived in Memphis, I was able to do it. When I moved here in Vegas, I tried it again and it was actually inflamed my fibromyalgia. So I just do the chiropractor now. But that helps because my body is so with all of the trauma, my body fights itself. And so I could take all the pain medicine in the world, but I need that realignment. I need the physical to calm down some and it relieves me because when I'm in pain, I can't think clearly. I'm stressed. And so I think mental health is physical health and parts of physical health impact mental health

Katie: Fully. Absolutely. And I mean I couldn't imagine living every day of my life in pain. I think anybody who has to live in pain like that, their mental health is going to be impacted. If it's not anxiety or depression, which I think all of us can experience when we have these difficult things, it can be much more than that. Just any way to escape. And so I think that that's really interesting. You're able to apply these different mechanisms and it sounds like it's taking you years to figure it out and that's normal, right?

Ashley: Definitely. It took, yeah, it's

Katie: Normal.

Ashley: Yes, definitely.

Katie: Yeah, I really like that. And I know that for you I think is probably essential now that you are working and you work extra hard. I think both of us maybe don't know when to turn off and until we hit the wall. So tell me more about what does self-care look like to you as a professional and as somebody with lived experience?

Ashley: I have to be honest. Some days I got it and some days it's harder. Self-care has been harder for me, harder than treatment because self-care with treatment, someone else is making a lot of the decisions. And then I'm just going along with self-care. I have to be the initiator and people will say, Ashley, take care of yourself. You are working too hard. Take this, do that. And because I'm a person that really gets my motivation and my actually self-esteem from serving other people, it's really hard to step back and recognize my mask needs to be put on first. That can be really hard. But a few things that I do include my faith work. I found that my faith work is really the only motivator that gets me to do most of the hard things. If it's things I need to do, my faith will say, okay, Ashley, when you woke up this morning, you need to pray.

You need to meditate, sing your songs of praise and get your affirmations going from scriptures. And when I do that meditation work, and even if somebody is listening and they are in faith, everything that I do with my faith work can actually be generalized. So whether that's scriptures instead of scriptures, affirmations can be used instead of the sermons I love to listen to. That helped me remind myself of who I am and what I need to do in my life. People can listen to inspirational messages instead of, I love all things God related music. It is uplifting to me, but any inspirational music could be uplifting to someone. And for me it's prayer. But for others it may just be meditation. And so I think I've just found a focus area for all of those coping strategies. But those are really big for me. Those are the ultimate big thing because I feel more aligned when I'm connected to my higher power and I feel more accountable for doing the right things when I answer to my higher power.

But some other things I do for self-care include reading and journaling, and I love watching comedies. I love laughing because I can have kind of negative self-talk a lot of times. So being able to watch something funny, it gets my mood up. I try to walk not as regularly as I would like, but at our office we have a back, what's it called? Courtyard in the back. And I like to walk around the courtyard in the back of our office building. And then at home we have a park right to the side. So I'll do that sometimes. And the last thing, I have a little silly one I like to do, but it's called a self plate. I am not in a romantic relationship. And so I've learned to love myself by self dates, going out to eat and just spending time with me.

Katie: I love that you need self dates. My coach calls it artist dates every time I get on the call and I'm like crying. Have you done any artist dates lately? No. No I haven't. Well, you need to go do that. You need to take yourself out and do these things for you. Take yourself to the movie that you want to go see or go do that paint night. And laughter is the medicine of the soul. So I'm glad that you mentioned that.

Ashley: Thank you. And my best self dates I enjoy to do. It's just going to a concert. I'm the weird one that goes by myself, but I enjoy it because see, I will save all my money just to go to one concert a year and sit near the front. I would rather sit at the front by myself and enjoy the concert than have someone with me that wants to sit in the bleachers,

Katie: Right, that accommodate that person. I'm the same way. I go places alone all the time. I went to a music festival alone two years ago, and it was honestly one of the best experiences that I've had at a concert. I just loved it.

Ashley: That's awesome, Katie. I feel less alone now.

Katie: Oh yeah. No, I'm totally weird. I'm totally weird. And it's only been in the last few years I've recognized that other people are like, what are you doing? What are you doing? Theses alone? I dunno. I dunno. I want to,

Ashley: Yeah, I think that's the introvert in us though.

Katie: Yeah, no, I think you're right. You're right. Because then I don't have to worry about socializing. I can just go enjoy the experience that I'm wanting to. Yeah, you're absolutely right. And I like that you mentioned your faith and how people who maybe don't have that faith-based experience can still utilize many of these self-care techniques in a more general way. But I want to take it back because I think that there's been a stigma between faith-based communities and mental health, and maybe that's been more prevalent in the past, but I know that you've really worked hard to really bring these two communities together and you're doing amazing things with nami. So talk more about how you're bringing faith and mental health together and what that looks like today. Maybe it looks a little better today than what people are thinking.

Ashley: Yes, definitely. So because faith means so much to me, and even from the church, I'm a part of New Antioch Christian Fellowship. My pastor is a clinical psychologist. She has her doctorate in psychology. So that was one of the main reasons I went to her church. Like she's combining faith and psychology together and that's amazing and mental health together. But in our communities, faith, there's a lot of stigma. We just say, pray about it, or your faith is weak and things like that when you're having hard times. And so I remember when aunt, I was trying to tell her, I need you to not just tell me to pray about it. I need support. And how I connected it to her was just first saying, Hey, you broke your foot. Her foot really was broken. So you broke your foot and you're sitting here. Let's say you just broke it. And I tell you, just get up, pray about it, have faith,

Katie: Walk it off, think positive, walk it off,

Ashley: You'll be fine. Just believe in your healing. And then you leave them and it's like, what? I have a broken foot. I need to go to the emergency room, which would be a psychiatric ward for mental health breaks. You're going to need physical therapy just like I'm going to need mental therapy. You're going to need medication just like I'm going to need medication. You're going to need, what is the other one? You're going to need a cast. You're going to need a crutch, and people are going to come by and bring you food and make sure you're okay. They're going to accommodate your space to help you be successful while you're healing. And we need that stuff for mental health. And so when I told her that as a woman who's what we call our prayer warrior, it just blew her mind by saying it that way.

And I love to talk to faith communities about that example because there is a double standard for what we do for people with physical illness versus mental illness. We shame and guilt people and tell them as if it is so simple that only prayer is needed to overcome those things and it's not. So with that background and experience, I spent a lot of time working to develop our faith community engagement with nami, working with different organizations like the Nevada Faith and Health Coalition, the Interfaith Council of Southern Nevada, the Phi Cam, which is the fellowship of independent Fellowship of churches and independent ministries with attending things like the Shepherd's Breakfast and all these faith and health and wellness community orgs, just so we can bring mental health trainings to them so that they can be more inclusive and aware and supportive of the families and the peers impacted by mental illness in their community.

We have to know the warning signs. We have to know how we can be more understanding and how we can work through mental health crisis that comes up in the faith communities, how we can refer them to resources. So we have a program called Bridges to Wellness, which connects faith communities to different trainings in the community so that they can learn warning signs, learn about suicide prevention, learn about suicide intervention, learn about adult mental health, first aid, youth mental health, first aid. And if you could imagine all of these youth ministries out there and all of these youth ministers and how they're on the frontline with the youth and could identify signs and let the families know, Hey, I noticed in school this morning this happened. I would want all youth ministers to be trained in youth mental health, first aid, little things like that. So that's the faith work we're working on just, and then suicide is actually, there's a lot of, unfortunately, a lot of spiritual leaders who have completed suicide. And in that community, there's a silence to it, and it's because they're carrying the weight of all their flock on their shoulders. And it's shameful for whatever reason, to be a pastor that has mental health challenges. And I kind of equate it to, unfortunately, our police officers who have to suffer in silence about mental health challenges and may not seek the help they need just because the stigma and the consequences of sharing can be so horrible. And so for faith communities, I want that stigma broken completely.

Katie: Oh my gosh. Wow, I got chills. That's really hard to hear that our faith leaders are suffering in silence like that. And I'm not at all surprised because I think it is. So to bring these two together, I think oftentimes people who go, if they're struggling or their families are struggling, it's going to be at their church that are going to be, when things start coming out, when the first signs and symptoms start popping up, maybe they go and they want to have a confessional because they're really struggling. These types of things are coming out in the faith communities, and it's like they're shouldering all of it in silence. And so that's awful. I had no idea. I'm really glad that you're bringing that to light.

Ashley: Yes. Thank you for letting me.

Katie: Yeah. Well, thank you for being here. I know we're over time. I want to ask you one final question if you're okay, and then we'll end it on this. That's

Ashley: Fine. I'm free.

Katie: Cool. Cool. Yay. Thank you. And the reason I want to ask you this last question is because you have this experience as both a peer, as a family member and as a professional, you are regularly working with other professionals in the field, and I think that your experience is going to be really insightful here. And so everybody has a different history to this, but do you think that a mental health or a challenge or a diagnosis is something that somebody can overcome or something that we should learn to live with and continue to care for as we get older? Because it'll never really go away?

Ashley: I want this question, want to start with recognizing that people are people first. That who I am is not what I have. One, love to remind people instead of saying, I am bipolar, that I have bipolar disorder, or I live with bipolar disorder instead of I am schizophrenic, or he is schizophrenic, that we say he lives with schizophrenia or he suffers from schizophrenia, but he and I are always first, and it doesn't make me equal to my disorder or my challenge that I'm a person first. So that's the first most important part. But as I think about if we can overcome it or we need to just accept it, I think it's both in the sense of I can overcome illness even if it doesn't disappear. So I've been diagnosed since I was 10, so I'm going to be, that's almost now 27 years of having four different diagnosis.

And if you had asked me back in 2009 during my second hospitalization, if I believe it can be overcome, I would say no because it was so hard for me to see a way out. But as I've lived longer and I've worked on myself and I've engaged in community, I feel like we can overcome the self stigma and we can overcome the negative impact of our illness when we are aware of the issue. Because if I don't have a diagnosis, then I don't know what to treat. And I don't know the solutions to that. Not everybody is going to, somebody may have temporary depression or they may hear voices, but once they're on the medication, they may or they have the proper coping strategies, they can live a quality life, they can live a joyful life, they can live a productive life. There is nothing that has to keep us from feeling like our diagnosis is not our identity or that we're stuck.

It really is by the work and the grace of God that we find what we need. And so I do think there's a level of accepting that it's our reality that we have a challenge, but not accepting that we are a victim to our reality, that we are victors in our reality. And all it is is a shift in thought that a diagnosis is not a shameful thing. When we realize that that's telling someone that their cancer is who they are, is who they are, right? No, we're like, no, you're going to live past this. You're going to get better. You're going to be able to handle, and a person gets into remission and then they're doing well, and then maybe a curr happens, and then we work through that. And we don't tell them you'll never overcome. We call them overcomers. We give them, tell them that there's hope and they're going to get well, and they have a life and they're going to live their life.

And I would say if we treat it like that, that we stay positive about the hope they should have for their future, then I think people wouldn't be as scared of the diagnosis. Because we have been told, if you get the diagnosis at stage one, your quality of life and potential to live a longer life increases as the earlier you get the diagnosis. But if we wait and we wait because we're fearful to hear what the reality may be, by the time we get so sick that we need to go in and the diagnosis and we're at stage four, we've really limited our ability to get better and lower our life expectancy. So I kind of feel like people should treat it like they treat cancer and just see that we want to stay hopeful, we want to stay supportive, and we don't want to wait too late to get that diagnosis because then we lose our opportunities to live a longer, more fulfilling, productive and happy life.

Katie: Wow. That is so true. I've never heard it said that way. And yet that's so accurate because stats show that when you do have a mental health diagnosis and the earlier you seek treatment for that mental health diagnosis, the better the outcomes are going to be. And it's the same. It's the same as with cancer. And I just love what you said that just because you have a diagnosis doesn't mean you have to have an illness. You're not always ill. You can utilize tools and get yourself in a better space and your identity is wrapped around you, and that diagnosis just happens to be something you have and you deal with just like a cancer or any other diagnosis. So I just really love, I love that how you explain that. It's very good.

Ashley: Thank you. And like I said, it's from the peer and the family part, because I've seen my family and the ones that accept their illnesses and the ones that don't, a day and night difference between how their life is moving forward. And so for me, I want to be the encourager to my family of recovery being possible. When we don't ignore, we don't silence ourselves, we don't shame ourselves, we don't allow families and our members in our community to shame us either. We have to speak up when people are adding guilt and shame and fear on top of an illness because that makes people not willing to share they have a problem or to get help for it.

Katie: Yeah, recovery is always possible, and stigma kills people. It lets us live and die in silence. And I think that you brought up the faith-based leaders, and I think that's something they're experiencing. Oh my gosh, what a great episode. We are way over time, so I need to stop asking you questions. You're just amazing. You're so inspiring. And every time I feel really down on myself, I know that you might be feeling the same way, and you're waking up every day and putting in the hard work. And I see it, and I see you, and I'm grateful for you and to know you. So thank you for being my very first guest on my second season of watching Mental Health.

Ashley: Thank you, Katie, and you're doing such amazing work. I get surprised when I think of you as an intern with NAMI and how you're just doing some amazing things, just amazing work in the community, your skills, your connections, just how you move in a room and get things done. It's amazing. And I love seeing that in our journey from volunteer to mental health professionals or Totally. Just really, you're amazing. Katie, thank you for

Katie: All. Thank you. We've really grown together, I think both from volunteer and then to be where we're at now, and I think we're both really grateful for it. Yeah, so thank you so much and we're going to continue doing amazing things together. But in the meantime, I will stop this episode. And for everyone out there watching, please tune in live every first and third Wednesday at 3:00 PM Pacific Time. And if you can't tune in live, that's no problem because all of my episodes are going to be found on my website @katierosewaechter.com. Thank you everyone. Have a great one, and we'll see you next time.