WMH Season 2, Ep 4: Chasing Happiness

This is a transcript of Watching Mental Health Season 2, Episode 4 with Zahra Karsan which you can watch and listen to here:

Katie Waechter: Hi everyone. Welcome to another episode of Watching Mental Health. I am very excited about this one because we have an expert, I believe in happiness here to talk to us today about happiness. And so I think we're going to have a really powerful conversation around what happiness means and talk a little bit more about her system. So I'll jump right into her bio. This is Zahra Karsan. She's a CEO, an inspirational speaker, a success coach, and the author of the bestselling book, Six Weeks to Happiness, the Ultimate Roadmap to retrain your brain for better health, greater abundance, and long lasting happiness. She knows what it's like to chase happiness, and after years of doing it, she decided to change that and she developed a revolutionary R.E.W.I.R.E system. So we're going to talk a little bit more about that today, and it's a groundbreaking methodology that retrains your brain for greater happiness, health, wealth, and success, which I think is something we are all looking for, right? So I'm very excited without further ado, to bring on Zahra Karsan to the show.

Zahra Karsan: Hi Katie. Thank you so much for having me. It's great to be here!

Katie: Hi, thank you so much for being here. I'm just so excited to talk to you and to learn a little bit more about you and about how you develop the system. So without further ado, tell us a little bit more about who you are and why you're here.

Zahra: Thank you. Well, my name is Zahra Karsan. I was born in South Africa during apartheid, which is a troubling time. It was a segregated society. We lived in separate townships. We had racial issues, not unlike certain parts of the US probably in the fifties. So we've come a really long way. But some of those concepts, why are people living separately based on the color of their skin or race are really difficult concepts to process as a small child. And so what I've come to understand about what it means to be human. And I think if you believe in spirituality, then some schools of thought believe that the soul chooses its journey before you were born into this life. Plato wrote about it as well. So some of the great philosophers from ages before us have written about such concepts. It's not new. And I think I chose this path because this was always meant to be my purpose.

And what I've come to realize is mental health is not just this thing that people need to manage or talk about or avoid. It's more about what it means to be a human being in this world. And we're not given a set of instructions when we're in school and we go through swimming lessons. We get a swim coach that teaches us exactly how to do the front stroke and the front crawl and the backstroke and whatever other style. We don't really get a lot to do in life. Well, how is it? What does it mean to be a successful, happy, wealthy, healthy human being in this world? And what are the things that you need to know about yourself, how you interact with the world, how you design your life, how you choose your work and your career to make sure that it aligns with your best version of yourself so that you are, when I say an optimal health, I don't mean having the perfect body.

I mean having enough energy and strength to get through your day and still have energy at the end of the day to not wake up exhaust, but to wake up full of energy and excitement for your life because you like your life. I think too many people are living in a really uninspired and exhausted way, running and running and tightly wound. And we've come to believe that if you want to be successful in life, you have to be on sprinting all the time. And I was one of those people and that's how I ended up here. So I started my career in management consulting, which is very high stress, high pressure, and I had projects that were five to $50 million in terms of the budget. And I was reporting into c-level executives. I was lucky enough to be a trusted advisor to CEOs and CFOs that called me in for special projects, but it didn't matter if I had a team of 12 or a team of 200 in my last project.

It's a lot of people to manage. It's a lot of moving parts to manage. You have to manage all the risks of everything going wrong. And so when I became a master at was delivering something successfully. And so I took that same approach then because I've just always been fascinated with human behavior. So it was kind of like a side study, if you will. I was trying to figure myself out all of these years going, why do I have this story running in the background that's called I'm not good enough and why everyone around me seems to know the proper way to eat well and get to the gym and be in perfect health? Or how does this person know to be so composed and create wealth and abundance for themselves and how does this person know how to be happy and what am I missing?

I really just felt like it was just me. And what I've come to realize is it's universal. If you are human, you are going through the same set of core needs and you are going through the same fears and self-doubt. So that set me on a path to try and figure out why is it this way? And what I've come to realize is we evolved we're animals. We evolved through the animal kingdom as homo sapien sapiens, we're walking erect, but instead of living in nature now we live in civil societies and big cities and we aren't meant to be living in concrete buildings all day long. We're meant to commune with nature and get fresh air and sunlight and be with nature because it's good for our brain, it's good for our bodies. It increases our metabolism, it increases our vitality. So I just got so tired of fumbling blindly for a solution for how to do life in a way that makes me feel happy, healthy, wealthy, and successful.

And I finally figured out the formula for myself and I thought, okay, this is it. Now I'm going to teach this to other people. And that's how the R.E.W.I.R.E Mindset system came to be. And that's how the book Six Weeks to Happy was born. Because it's a six week plan where I teach people three tools per week for six weeks to quiet the mind away from stress, back to balance, quiet the brain and the nervous system, learn how to pay attention to your thoughts and feelings so you can start your day instead of feeling exhausted and stressed intentionally. How do you want your day to go? What are the things you want to be feeling instead? And then how to create healthy, positive daily practice so that you can keep these things in play and stay in that empowered mindset where you are happy, healthy, wealthy, and finally feeling successful in life.

Katie: Wow, what a journey. So tell us more about the R.E.W.I.R.E system that you created. How did you develop it? It sounds like you spent years going into the research. Tell us more about how that came about and what it is. Is it an acronym and kind walk us through that a little bit?

Zahra: Yeah, so R.E.W.I.R.E is an acronym. There's six letters in the word R.E.W.I.R.E. And so the first R is relax and Quiet the Mind. So you're learning three tools, not just to quiet the mind and to learn the practice of mindfulness, which is really just giving yourself the power to observe your thoughts and feelings without judgment. So instead of I'm anxious, I'm so stressed right now it's I am feeling stressed. What is causing this? And it gives you that moment of pause where you can really just take a look at almost like an out of body experience, really look at yourself and say What's, but because I'm the first skeptic and because of my management consulting background, it's all about the KPIs and the data and the critical success factors. I need to know something works. I want it to be facts. I want it to be efficient, and I want it to be absolutely no nonsense.

It has to be easy, simple as a 6-year-old could do. I love it. And so these are the tools that I chose to put into the book because what I learned in my psychology training when I did my undergrad is that 75 to 95% of any psychological issues go untreated because you have to seek treatment yourself. And although we've come a long way in the last 10 years, not just with Covid, because I think Covid really called to mind the fact that everyone is dealing with stress and anxiety and frankly, global panic, it was unprecedented. We've never seen anything like this. We didn't know what to expect. There was so much fear, there was so much misinformation, and we didn't know what was real and what wasn't. There were medications coming onto market so quickly, we didn't know what to trust. Do we get the vaccine, do we not?

Then beyond that, we've had Olympians talking about mental health issues and stress issues that are impacting their performance. So it's finally now being able to be in the mainstream and have a common perception and a common understanding of what that is. But still, I can tell you out of 10 men, nine of them probably will say, I will never do therapy. What is that? Certainly it's a cultural thing. So there are certain cultures, Asian, south Asian, Eastern European won't even think about it. It's not a consideration. So I came to realize this really is about being a human being. And so what are the tools I can give people as a gift? Because it took me 30 years to figure out how to do this for myself as an adult. And I thought, what if we could reach people at six or eight or 10 or 12 or 15 or 18 and give them the tools or even young adults, give them the tools, mature adults?

I think this is what a midlife crisis is about. I think we don't have a clear understanding of ourselves. We get into a relationship and we come, we become this thing called we the partnership, we the couple, we the family, and of course you wake up three years later or seven years later, completely exhausted and uninspired and not feeling like yourself because you never knew yourself going into it. So what the R.E.W.I.R.E system does is in week one, I first give you the tools to understand how your brain and nervous system are wired, how we are wired for survival, and what are the core human needs that need to be met in order to alleviate the root cause of that stress and anxiety. So not treating them, but going right into the root cause. What is it that makes you feel like you might not be deserving of love?

What is it that makes you feel like you might not be capable of wealth and success and the psychology of money and all of these beliefs that run in our subconscious start long before the age of seven. Seven. And so we as adults think we're running the show, but we're only 5% conscious mind that 95% of us is where all the change happens. So if you could just learn how to tap into your subconscious, pull it out into your awareness and actually make the shift, and I give you the tools to do that. So in the first week you get all of that how to quiet your mind. What are the sources of your core stress and anxiety? What are your subconscious beliefs that are preventing you from having the health, the love, the wealth, the happiness you deserve. Then in week two is the E, and that's eliminate the noise.

So we go into we're all on autopilot all the time and we have so much stimuli coming at us, especially with social media. Now, 15 years ago we had maybe a landline and a mobile phone and maybe two voicemails and one or two emails, your work email and your personal Yahoo or whatever email it was. Now, every social platform also has direct messaging. So how many messages are coming at you from how many different platforms? And every time your phone bings or your laptop pings, it's something demanding your time and attention and it's triggering our fight or flight response. It's triggering our stress response and it's causing a serious mental and emotional health issues and also physical because of it. And so the second week is all about learning how to move away from burnout and create some space to just simplify things so that you can just manage your energy and teaches you how to manage your body as an energy source.

So we are much like your phone or your car. Your car doesn't run without gas or if it's an electric vehicle without a battery charge, your phone doesn't run without its battery charge. We know we have to sleep, eat, and drink water to stay alive. Well, we also need energy. We also need to learn how to manage our energy well. So we need to figure out what that balance is, and it's different for everyone, and that's fine. I give you the tools to do that In week two. In week three, we dive into who are you? Who is Katie and who is Zahra? Because you and I and 10 other people could sit at a breakfast table and there is no chance that we are all going to order exactly the same thing exactly the same way because we're all and our formula for happiness, wealth, health and success is going to be the same.

The gym routine you like or what you like to do to stay healthy, to keep your body moving is going to be different than mine. You might like to do a three hour bike ride or train for a marathon or do CrossFit. You could not convince me to do CrossFit. My body will lock up like I'm a 90-year-old, I refuse. I don't even like cardio anymore, but I'll go for long walks. I'll be with nature and I like weight training. That's just what makes me feel strong, but it's different. And so we tap into what do you need to feel in optimal health? What do you need your environment to look like so that your mind is clear? And it's not just your physical environment. It's not just fitness and nutrition. It's also what do you need your home to look like? What do you need your office to look like?

If you are person, you're comfortable in clutter everywhere, and that's okay. There's no judgment. There's no right or wrong in this. I like to be neat and tidy. If I'm with somebody that's messy, it makes me crazy. I can't do that. I need to choose a partner, then that's also neat and tidy. My home and the office and my car are just like that because that's how I have peace of mind. It's clarity of mind. What do you need financially? What do you need spiritually to feel your best? Spirituality is not just faith or prayer, for example. It's what makes you feel peaceful, what makes you feel serene? Being near the water makes me feel serene. So I'm looking out at the ocean in Miami because seeing that ocean energy is so calming for my brain, it's the first thing I get to look at in the morning when I wake up and I walk into the kitchen for my coffee and I feel so blessed every morning.

So what are your spiritual needs? What are your physical needs? What are your sexual affectionate needs? What are your emotional needs? What are your mental needs? And once you get a clear picture, and I give you the tools to map it all out, write down to hours per day, what do you need to feel your best? What do you need socially? For example, what you need might be different than your partners. Maybe you're an extrovert and your partner's an introvert and they're perfectly happy being at home alone and staying in nights and you were going to go stir crazy if you have to live that life. I'm a city girl. I like energy, excitement, but I like a peaceful life. Don't put me in the suburbs. I will wither away and die.

But the closest people around me, some of them love to have a quieter life. I want big, want big excitement, big adventure, and I'll take my peace and I'll take my solitude in other ways. So it's really about knowing yourself. So in week three we go into what do you need? What are your needs and what are the things that you value? So what's important to you? So if you value freedom like I do, then going into an office Monday to Friday for 20 years, I hated it. I hated it, I hated it. I hated it. Sitting in my car for two to three hours a day, didn't enjoy it. I enjoyed my work. But now I've designed a business where I can be virtual, where I get to work from pretty much anywhere in the world. You have to watch time zones. I was once in Paris and I had to do a radio show at midnight, so that meant going to dinner and rushing back to the hotel to do a meeting basically, and a live call.

But it was fine. It was fun. I mean exciting, but you have to watch your energy and make sure you're ready for these things. And then in week four, so now we have given you the tools to quiet your mind, understand your wiring, your subconscious fear patterns. And in week one, by the way, I've also developed a personality quiz called the life block quiz, which anyone can take you just go to our website six weeks to happy.com, take the quiz, and you don't even have to do the work of guessing what your subconscious fear patterns are. This just pulls it right out of you. It's designed to actually pull out your subconscious responses so you can see what are your fear patterns, what is your belief system, what are your triggers and what are the things that you value? So it kind of pulls together all three weeks into one and gives you a ton of information as a personality profile.

And it's fun. We developed it as 10 animal archetypes. So you have two to three, well two to five I'll say animal archetypes that describe your personality. Everyone again, everyone is a little different. So you might have two, you might have three. So for example, cheetah. Cheetah has the subconscious belief that because growing up in South Africa had this story running in my background that I'm not good enough. And so cheetahs then start to learn to take action because of this belief that they're not good enough. Oh, you better believe we're going to try harder. If you want something done, you give it to a cheetah because

Katie: I feel like a cheetah. I feel like a cheetah.

Zahra: There you go. And so if your story that you're running in the background is I'm alone in this world, and that's your subconscious fear pattern, then you might be an eagle. And an eagle are the born leaders. I'm also an eagle, so I like the high life. I don't mind working hard for them. I don't mind taking my solitude and putting all of my social activities on the back burner until I make the money to live the sort of life I want to live. And nobody's going to set stop me. But when you learn to develop it in a healthy way, you learn to catch yourself. Now, if you have a story running that says, I'm alone in this world, if it's developed in an unhealthy way, how it's going to play out is you're going to run this story that says something like, if I want something done right, I have to do it myself.

So does that give you the ability to connect when you're in a relationship with your partner? Does it give you the ability to be vulnerable and open hearted? So learning about yourself and then learning about your partner and your family can be extremely valuable. Then you can see how to approach each other in a much more kind and compassionate way. And again, it's just the human journey. There is not a single person anywhere that I've ever met that doesn't fit into one of these personality profiles. I promise you, when I design this personality quiz, I put every single client through it, all the client data that I've ever had, hundreds of clients, every CEO I've ever worked with, every sibling I've ever met, not just mine, every family member, every friend, every family member of theirs, everyone had a personality type and everyone was reflected in this, and the accuracy level was unbelievable.

So it's a really fun way to get to know yourself and figure out what are your fear patterns and what's holding you back. And then just blow it open because we have the tools, we can actually do that now. And that was why I was so passionate about this. I really just wanted to give people the tools to be able to do this for themselves. And it's not about necessarily needing therapy or coaching, it's really about what does it mean to be human and how can we tap into who we are really meant to be in this world and how we're meant to show up so that we can be our best, most empowered self. So that in week three, and I know I'm going really long-winded here, so I apologize, then the I in R.E.W.I.R.E is okay, now we've quieted the mind, we've cleared away the noise.

In week two, we've figured out who you are and the gap between your life now and what you now know is going to make you feel your happiest, most energized, most successful self. And now we can start putting a plan in place to actually connect the dots. So now we reimagine your life so that you have your needs met so that you have your values met. So if I'm a person that values freedom, putting me in a desk job where I have to be sat at a table for eight to 10 hours a day is going to make me miserable, give me another job where I have the freedom to move around and can still be productive and still make money, I'm going to be a much happier person. So it's just figuring out how to factor in your needs and your values into a newly imagined life. And now we want to go bigger. So how do we elevate you? And so in week five, we get into a bit of the study of quantum physics. I give you a lot of neuroscience, positive psychology data, all of this stuff. So I'm educating you as we go through this. So the book is actually set in three parts. The first is just what is the R.E.W.I.R.E system? What is the science behind each of the pools?

And so by the time we get to week five, you understand the science and the energy of thought and the energy of emotions and where that sits in the brain and the nervous system and the body, and how to make the shift between running on autopilot and always being stressed to living in a calmer, more intentional way where you can actually have health, wealth and happiness show up and feel like you're actually being a successful human. And then in week six, because I was so tired of doing these weekend courses and these week long workshops and coming back, I excited and then it all unraveling in a few weeks, I needed to make sure, and this is the same thing I did in management consulting and the projects is it's called transition to Operations. So when you close a project, how do you hand that off and make sure that the success of that project still maintains after you've walked away, after the project team has walked away.

So I give you an ongoing plan to make sure you stand empowered and you have all the tools to catch yourself to know when something's throwing you off and how to get back on track so that this actually creates long lasting change. And the reason I chose six weeks is because the brain shows lasting signs of change at the 35 to 42 day mark, 42 days, six weeks. So this does actually cause a shift in your brain and your nervous system over that six week period if you follow all the tools. And I promise you, it takes no more than 15 minutes a day, 15 minutes a day for six weeks. And your thoughts, your feelings, your behaviors are going to shift dramatically with just tiny, tiny little changes in your behaviors. But everything's going to feel different. You will find yourself healthier, happier, and more successful after that six weeks, I promise you. And it will just blow your mind open and blow your life wide open in terms of what you can accomplish.

Katie: That's amazing. I'm excited to jump into this book you've sold me. I'm very excited. Also, I love the personality quiz. I think that's so cool in that you're really able to bring it to an animal. It just makes it relatable. I just feel, I think it's so amazing. It's

Zahra: A fun game to play with your friends and family as well. Like, oh, are you still eating cheetah? Oh my God, yeah.

Katie: It's really funny. And it shows we all bring something different to the table. We need to recognize that. So I love that awareness is really your first key to this. And then it's these kind of small actions. And I love that the final step is that idea of, okay, how do we take this long term? Because we've all done that, right? We've been to a Tony Robbins seminar, we come away, we think we're going to conquer the world, and three weeks later, we're right back where we were before. So my question then is I guess what happened? Did you hit a midlife crisis moment? What made you transition from consulting to saying, okay, no, I'm done. I'm getting off the hamster wheel. How did you get off the hamster wheel? It feels like we're all stuck on it right now.

Zahra: Well, it's an interesting question because when you go from being a consultant who is very stressed and well paid to starting a business thinking it's going to be easier, well, it's not easier for what anyone listen. An entrepreneur will know it's a, but how I made the shift is an interesting story, and I relay it in the book as well. It was basically an almost nervous breakdown myself. I was so tightly wound, I thought it was normal. And I think this is a very common story these days to work an eight hour days almost non-existent for most people for the last 20 years. Maybe this new generation is going to shift that for us because they're much more entitled than empowered to say, I'm not willing to do that. And we didn't have that when we were growing up for sure, or I didn't rather, so how it happened was very, very high stress projects all the time, always working to a deadline, always pushing my team hard, pushing myself hard.

And I caught myself one day walking to the office kitchen and I was just sprinting. I was always sprinting. I would wake up exhausted and I would gear up for the day like I was putting on my arm ready for battle. And then I'd get in my car still tired after my coffee, and on the way to the office probably drinking another coffee. And I would crank the music just to get some energy in my body so that by the time I arrived at the office, I was ready to go. I was always there early, and that's when the executives came in and would chat with me. But I caught myself walking to the kitchen and thinking, oh my gosh, I'm constantly running. I walk fast, I breathe fast, I talk fast, I do everything fast. Is there ever a time when I'm going to get to just slow down my pace? And I didn't even realize I was stressed in that moment. I just caught myself feeling rushed all the time. And then I got a note from my boss and said, your project isn't put on hold. Come see me in my office. So I knocked on his door and I walked in and he just had this moment. All that stress just leaked out of me, and I burst in tears, which is not something I ever did. First of all, a woman in a corporate world, you cry, you're done,

Katie: Right?

Zahra: And I was known for being really composed and really well rehearsed and very well prepared and very detail oriented and thorough and put together. This did not happen. This was not the me that I knew. So my boss and I, we both just looked at each other in utter shock.

Katie: What happened?

Zahra: He's like, okay, what's going on? And I said, there's all this personal stress. My marriage was ending at the time. I had all this work stress that I didn't even realize. I was holding all this tension in my body. And I think this is why the conversation about mental health is so important is because so many of us believe that that's normal. When I was dating, I was looking for a guy as tightly wound as I was because I thought that was normal. It's not normal.

Katie: And

Zahra: So if you just allow yourself to learn the tools to actually quiet the mind, retrain the brain and the nervous system back to balance, you actually improve your brain's processing power. It speeds up. It's called brain ification, so it's going to sound so bizarre. But if you meditate and practice mindfulness, these are just two of the techniques I talk about in the book, and you don't have to sit there in yogic position to meditate. I give you a bunch of different ways you can do it. You can do it walking, you can do it with a breathing exercise. The trick is you want to quiet the brain and the nervous system in a way that works for you, but also is retraining your nervous system back to balance. And when you learn that, and when you learn these techniques, it actually increases brain ification, which is your brain's processing speed. So you actually process thoughts much more quickly. You have more clarity, you have more focus, and you're actually more productive by getting calmer. It sounds counterintuitive, but it's just shockingly brilliant when you can actually learn how to do it and all of a sudden you have laser focus and you're able to do it without being exhausted.

Katie: It's

Zahra: A genius little trick.

Katie: It's beautiful. And it sounds like the science is there for people who, so I'm going to end on this. This will be our last question. But it sounds like people out there who are really struggling with depression and anxiety, it seems to be what we're all facing these days in some way, and this epidemic of mental health challenges is just skyrocketed. And it feels like people feel really stuck, but they don't have to be. Right. Exactly. So what would you say to someone who does feel like I am never going to feel happiness. I am constantly depressed and anxious because it seems like so much of what everyone is going through. What would you say to someone who's just like, I don't think that there's a way,

Zahra: I promise you, if you have the right tools, and I go through all of it in the book, I give you the behind it. If you can do what's in your power to do, whether that's moving your physical body, it's really all about the balance of the neurochemicals. So we have four groups of neurochemicals that run through our brain and our nervous system that are, feel-good chemicals, oxytocin, endorphins, dopamine, serotonin. We get a dopamine hit every time we get a like on Instagram. Well, that's not a great healthy way to get a hit of dopamine. For example. We get a dopamine hit when we're craving chocolate or sweets and we go and have that piece of cake. But if you understand how the brain works, the dopamine doesn't actually come from the cake. It comes from the simple act of telling yourself, I'm walking to the kitchen.

That's when you get the dopamine hit. Wow, isn't that cool? So if you knew how the brain worked and you knew how the reward system works and how to have those feel good chemicals running through you, you can make healthier choices. And the shift just happens naturally. I think I might actually have the second book already. We should call it the Healthy Brain Diet or sun is Not a Diet, having the neurochemicals flowing so that you feel great all the time. Now look, not everyone loves to work out and go to the gym and that's fine. Nobody's saying that's the only way to do it, but get outside, walk, move your body. What it does is it sends a signal from your body to your brain saying, I'm still alive and kicking. I want to move. I'm here. I want to be active. And your brain in return says, okay, let's keep this thing going.

Do you know, as you get older, physical exercise is one of the top two things you can do to prevent cognitive decline, physical exercise. Yeah, it's so exciting and interesting. It's the best natural antidepressant is just get outside, be with nature, go for a walk, move that body that you were given so that it continues to serve you. Oxytocin comes from love. It can come from a hug, it can come from eye contact. Even you and I being on video right now because it's just the two of us. We can make eye contact and have this conversation. And what a people generally do as they're going into depression, these are the symptoms. You get loss or gain of appetite, you get loss of interest in physical activities. So you start to feel sedentary, you start to feel lethargic. You don't want to work out. You have to control it. You have to get up and force yourself to get outside, even if it's just to get in the car with the windows down, get out. Instead of ordering your groceries, go pick them up yourself. Get up, move around. Have social interaction is another thing. You can also get it from your pets or your friends by social interactions. So finding some time to play and be silly like we did when we were kids.

How do you have those neurochemicals naturally flowing in the body that make you feel good, that are feeling you with feelings of love and connection that are reminding you that you are not alone in this world? And so having those needs met, and I promise you, 15 minutes a day, all it takes is six weeks. And anyone can make this shift. All you have to do is take it in, take action yourself, take the first step, go to six weeks to happy.com and take the quiz today. It's that easy.

Katie: That's perfect. So I was going to ask that. So what is the best way for people to do that? So head over to your website. Say it again.

Zahra: Sixweekstohappy.com. They can also go to the life block quiz.com and take the quiz on either page, get the book, do the program, I promise it'll create a huge, huge shift. And then if you want to go further, you can book coaching with our teams as well. And we have a promo code for your audience as well, so they'll get everything 30% off.

Katie: Oh, amazing. So I'll make sure that my audience can see that. So we'll make sure we get that out there. And yeah, I'm just so grateful. I think that you touched on some really important things, and really it comes down to tools. It comes down to having the tools in your tool belt that you know how to get yourself maybe out of the slump to get off of the hamster wheel. And it sounds like you've really provided these tools in a really beautiful succinct way. So I'm excited to dive into the book further. I just can't wait, and I'm so grateful that you came on to talk about happiness with me because it's so important and I think we all need to be happy in this world.

Zahra: Thank you so much, Katie, and thank you for this show watching Mental Health. You're doing inspiring work, and I really believe if we shift the conversation from mental health to just being a successful human, then it all just feels a lot more relatable and we can all just have so much more compassion for each other because we're all going through something.

Katie: Yeah, we're all human. It's so true.

Zahra: Thank you for having me. It's pleasure,

Katie: Of course. And we'll have you again anytime. But for now, we'll go ahead and wrap it up and look out for the post. So I'll make sure I share your promo code and your website and all of your contact information. But in the meantime, catch us every first and third Wednesday here at Watching Mental Health at 3:00 PM Pacific Time. Thanks so much everyone. Have a good one!